Authors and Artists Getting Political - Is it worth it?

Authors and Artists Getting Political - Is it worth it?

Matt: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Write Out Loud. Yes, we are. Back, back again.

Christina: Woohoo.

Matt: Write out Loud is back. Tell a friend. Uh, yeah, it's been a little bit, hasn't it?

Christina: Yes, it has

Matt: Unfortunately. We had some family medical issues. We had some health issues of our own. We had some other things going on. So it has kept us out of the, outta the play for a couple of weeks, but we are back and ready to go.

Christina: January. What else is gonna happen after the holidays? Everyone gets sick and.

Matt: Yeah, it's true. It's true. But we're back and we are ready to rock and roll. Today we're, we're diving headfirst into what's probably a deceptively simple question. Should writers be vocal about their personal political beliefs? Or should the work speak for itself? Because in an age where every single take is permanent, public, and algorithmically amplified, silence isn't neutral, but neither is speaking up.

So I'm Matt, and of course, I'm joined by the brilliant, the [00:01:00] bubbly, the razor sharp, the endlessly curious, Christina, who is always ready to question assumptions, challenge comfort zones, and lovingly set fire to a neat conclusion.

Christina: Oh, I'll take that. I'll take that.

Matt: But it is important to know that in this episode, we're not here to give you the answers to this. This is something where we're gonna explore the questions, kind of talk through some of our thoughts, but it is up to you to decide as the writer, as the artist, is this a time where you speak up or do you keep it to yourself?

Christina: Yeah. I, I've been seeing this quite a bit online, on social media where audiences are coming out and saying, oh my God, I didn't know this author was, of X, Y, Z, political. Mindset And previous times, writers would say something like how could you not know, reading my material, what I, what my political leanings were?

And

Matt: Sure.

Christina: was [00:02:00] a absolutely valid thing to say. But I've seen a shift. I've seen a shift where now the artists are coming out and saying, and I'm, I'm grouping artists, as an umbrella, yes. We speak of writing here and our general audience is from the publishing world. But this also includes, I, I can think back to the Dixie Chicks,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: know, when they were across the pond and, uh, made it known. And the phrase shut up and sing,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Became a thing. And, uh, so yeah, so I thought it would be a really good time to talk about that because I've seen a shift where instead of just saying, how could you not know what my political leanings were to things like, this is too important for me not to speak out about.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: And, uh, so I think we're in a different little bit of a different atmosphere here, and that's why I thought

Matt: Sure.

Christina: interesting topic.

Matt: We saw as well in [00:03:00] as recent as the Grammys last night, that, a lot of artists were vocally making their thoughts known on, subjects like ice, uh, things like that. So, it's definitely prime topic for this, this day and age and what we're dealing with currently. I think there's, it, it has been going on a while.

I think there's been some times where. Friends of mine have have said to me, oh, you're still watching that show? We don't watch that because so and so is MAGA. And in some cases I was like, huh, really? Like, I had no idea. Right.

Christina: yeah.

Matt: And I think, another example of that, we did a whole episode on it with JK Rowling and, as, as offensive and as.

Controversial as she is, but you know, I think there's been a lot of folks who continue to kind of separate the art from the artist

Christina: Right,

Matt: and while they don't want to get involved in maybe new projects they released, they're, still supportive of the previous because that was, 

Christina: right.

Matt: they came up with, they were [00:04:00] kind of still attached to that and wanted to, to maintain that attachment.

Right. And, and I think.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: It's a deeply kind of personal question. It's a personal thing that you have to decide, do I want to continue to do that or not knowing that they might get some benefit.

Christina: And that's, that is a perspective we're coming from is every single consumer, listener, anything. We all have a choice. We have a choice. Uh, using the JK Rolling, we have a choice whether or not to put any more money into that basket.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: of if it's new or old or whatever. As a consumer, that's what we have a choice to do. And that's not what we're debating here at all today.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: because everyone has their own choice about where they're gonna, spend their money. The question really becomes, an artist, is there a line that you draw [00:05:00] that I am not gonna cross that line because I will lose. All of my income because my income comes from, the consumer.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: or is there something that, you know what, I do not care I lose every single reader and every dime I make from, writing my books, this is too important me to speak out on.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: think that's, I think that's what the choice comes down to. the artist, is, is whether or not this is something important enough.

And on the other hand, uh, like I said, there are tons of, know, writers that have come out and said, how can you read my books and not know? know? And I think that's why the JK rolling thing sometimes gets people is that you read the material I never would have

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Did not reflect. [00:06:00] Her personal beliefs,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: know, so, 

Matt: yeah. I mean, John Lithgow was just tapped to play Dumbledore in the new HBO. An adaptation of Harry Potter. And he, in a interview kind of said as much he was like, I find it very baffling because her work does not at all reflect that it's all about kindness and it's all about, uh, accepting others and, and inclusion and everything.

So it's just, he goes, it's just baffling to me. Go ahead.

Christina: a, yeah, so in a sense that's, again, comes down to someone's personal preference on where, they're gonna spend their money. But yeah, I do think, sometimes people read something, and you're kind of surprised. So I mean, it does come down to, do you know your audience? Do you know what type of, and again, I'm gonna speak directly to books. Do you know what type of book that you're writing? Because people that write, and I'm gonna go specifically to the romance genre 'cause [00:07:00] this seems to happen a little bit more. There

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Other places because there is kind of a dividing line within the romance genre that are, okay, I'm gonna be very generalized here. That are, closed door romances that appeal to a specific crowd and then open door romances that clearly, speak to another crowd.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: And if there is someone who doesn't cross the line in either one of those places, and then all of a sudden they start speaking out. So again, with this generalized tone meaning I know that there are gonna be exceptions and everything, but if someone is writing, Amish romances and they come out as very, friendly.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Yeah, there is gonna be a reader disconnect there and you are going to

Matt: Potentially.

Christina: pro potentially,[00:08:00] 

Matt: Yep.

Christina: Lose some audiences there. So I think, if you are speaking to an audience that you know is specific to a certain political leaning, yeah, I'd probably not let. Political affiliations be known.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: but I think we're also in a time where I don't know anybody who is, you know, again, gonna be writing something that you are not, like if you are not passionate about the Amish romances,

Matt: Right.

Christina: You're probably not gonna be writing them.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: so yeah.

Matt: Great. I think there's the other side of that coin too, which is you might lose, let's say you, let's say you are, we're gonna continue this analogy, right? So you've got, you write Amish romances, your core audience probably is that group of folks who likes that type of, of romance, right?

Christina: Mm-hmm.

Matt: then you come out as pro lg, L-G-B-T-Q [00:09:00] or atheist or whatever, right?

Hardcore something that is different or seems to be antithetical too. Amish romances. There's also the flip side that you could engage a whole new audience that starts to like your stuff as you slough off some of the folks that would've stayed

Christina: Right.

Matt: had you not voiced your opinion. Right? So there's,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: we see that sometimes on a smaller scale and definitely with with less stakes.

With less stakes at play. We see that on a smaller scale in things like people who have, accounts on Instagram or accounts on, threads and make a comment and lose a bunch of followers, but then gain 10 times as many because other people find them and like what they have to say.

So

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: there is a bit of a bet there where you're like, gosh, I could potentially lose some, but maybe, maybe gain some more. Who knows? I think at the end of the day. If you are looking at things through the lens of, do my beliefs help people or potentially hurt people? And if you can [00:10:00] look at it and go, well, my beliefs actually help people.

They want to include others, they want people to thrive. My beliefs want people to have the best in life and, and no matter what, religion, they are no matter what, sex, sexual orientation, whatever chances are. You're gonna be okay. It just depends, right?

Christina: yeah.

Matt: chances are you're gonna be okay.

Now if you start embracing, for example, the disgusting tactics that I are using currently and you start thinking, writing about that or talking about how that's great and they should keep doing that, then you know you very well may lose a lot in that you might lose some followers, you might gain some more also, certainly.

But I think the other sort of. Factors to to weigh in. There are what happens with people that you work with in your art. For example, if you're an author, your publishing company, whatever you say is public, so they have every right to say, we are no longer gonna work with you based on your comments, right?

Your cover artist might also [00:11:00] be like, yep, nope. It's been, it's been fun, but never again. So, there are real world ramifications to the business side of things.

Christina: Yep.

Matt: again, hopefully you're making the right determination, the right, the right decision as far as when it's time to speak out.

But you just have to know it's a gamble.

Christina: I think again, it comes down to the idea that if you are passionate about something. That you are willing to face the consequences of what may happen. again, I keep thinking back to re recent comments, within the last few weeks, and again, you mentioned ice. People are speaking out because they see what is happening

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: they are not okay with it.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: And so they say, don't care. I lose every single reader. This is more important

Matt: Yep.

Christina: will be okay because I will go do this, this, and this, this, and this. [00:12:00] So what it comes down to really is you okay with standing behind whatever comments you are going to make

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: if you are unsure about those comments and how they will be received and you're like, Emin and Juan. Then maybe it's not time to speak out,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: if you are so absolutely, like I am so totally down with, losing everything.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: because you cannot be silent any longer. And the thing is, I think we as audience members also have to take into consideration we are, we have found these people through their voice,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: through their writing. And there was something that attracted us to their writing in the first place. And to be stifling their voice at a time when they feel it is most necessary to use it. I think is also putting [00:13:00] people in a box that you, you can't, can't do that. And as an audience member, I, I myself would have to sit and go, okay, this person feels that vocally about it.

And my choice again comes down to do I buy their work or don't I buy their work? And as you said, I think, a lot of times when people speak out, when it's something that vitally important, as you said, I think a lot of people fill in and say, Hey, I wasn't following you before, but you know what? just gained yourself a new follower,

Matt: Yeah. Yeah.

Christina: those new followers, yeah. Uh, they perhaps will, buy your stuff. I think it's just, it's a very, very interesting time not just to be a citizen,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: of humanity but also to be in the publishing industry [00:14:00] because I think we are seeing Monumental shift in how this industry will be going, going forward.

Matt: Sure, sure. Yeah. I think there's an aspect of this too, that, as, again, as an author, as an artist of some sort that when you come upon this, this time and to your point, depending on how passionately you feel about it, but when you come to this point, you feel like, gosh, I really need to decide is it time to speak up or, or not, right?

There's sort of this argument of. At some point, does silence equal complicity? And is there a responsibility for you to speak out because you have maybe a platform that others don't? Right? And I think that's a more nuanced discussion because is it a responsibility just because you have a large following?

Some say yes, some say no. I don't know who's right, to be honest. I think it depends on the situation.

Christina: Uh, yeah, [00:15:00] uh, yes and no. I, I'm gonna have to slightly disagree with you on that simply because don't think you can put that responsibility on anyone, regardless. I mean, if they, uh, they're the most world famous actor,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Are they obligated to speak out? If they don't feel comfortable doing so, that's

Matt: Right.

Christina: on them that, it's different. If it's a politician,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Or somebody that is working in politics then yes, I think it is a responsibility to speak up and say what it is that you, believe. Now, the other side of the coin to that is also, what if you are in the minority and believe in the minority And someone who, I'm trying to dance around this because, I don't want this to get too political, but

Matt: Well,

Christina: if you're a Nazi [00:16:00] and you believe in the Nazi way,

Matt: right.

Christina: I'm pretty sure that everybody is okay with you being quiet. But on the other hand, do they have a responsibility to shout from the rooftops as they're, they're a Nazi,

Matt: Yeah. Or anti-Nazi.

Christina: or anti-Nazi

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: No. 'cause

Matt: But

Christina: opposite, that's what I'm saying. I think I'm not being clear on what I'm saying here is that like, if your voice

Matt: mm-hmm.

Christina: is clearly in the majority, like I'm anti-Nazi, I feel comfortable saying on this podcast without us getting any politic, into any politics, I am totally anti-Nazi.

Matt: Yeah,

Christina: I

Matt: same.

Christina: in the, I believe the Holocaust happened, and I believe it was one of the most evil things, 

Matt: yeah.

Christina: happen and it should never happen again. and that's, I think that's my point is that when you, when you know your voice is in the maj, my majority, when you know, your voice is in the majority, let me say that

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I'm very clear. know, it [00:17:00] is easier. For you to speak out because you know you will be supported by the majority,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: your voice is in the minority, then you know it is more difficult. And what it does come down to is is it the responsibility of someone to speak out just because they have a platform? And. I'm gonna have to say it really depends on if they feel comfortable doing it.

If they don't feel comfortable doing it, there might be reasons, you

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: can't, we can't really fault them for that,

Matt: Yeah. I think, I think it depends though. I think it, I think there is a way, 'cause I, I agree with you and I disagree in both, both situations. I think I. There is a question, and I don't know the answer to this question, so I'm po I'm posing it out of just food for thought, right? Like, do they have an actual responsibility because they have amassed this [00:18:00] following of people that they have, put out this, this work and they continue to put out this work and it attracts more and more people and more and more people are buying into it.

And there's like this whole sort of.

I don't know. I guess almost like empire building, like you're building your own, collection of, or your own tribe. And does that then, because of the notoriety, because of the fame that comes with it, because of the, the power that that comes along with that, does that then sort of require them.

To not stay silent, in instances mainly of injustice. I think, certainly not in situations where, like if they were pro-Nazi, for example. I agree with you. I think most people would be okay with them just shutting the hell up in that case. But if you're anti-Nazi, if you're anti injustice, like then maybe there is, I don't know.

I don't know because I don't.

Christina: Well, I think, again, I'm, I, it comes down [00:19:00] to the individual has to be okay with, whatever consequences happen from that, and I think that's why willing to give someone who has that type of PLA platform,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: bit of grace. I would hope that they speak up

Matt: Sure.

Christina: Make their feelings known, but I also understand they are maybe considering the consequences. And they can see some consequences maybe that we do not, or that we should not judge them for.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: The thing is we don't know what's going on in their personal life. Let's say, okay, I'm totally making scenario up just to fit, this lens,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Is gonna give you an idea. What if that person has an elderly relative relies on them? For their [00:20:00] healthcare.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: this person says, but if I speak out and I lose all of my money, I can no longer care for that relative.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: saying is we don't know

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: are. And that person, they be an author, actor, know, I'm not gonna say activists because activists are the ones that are, 

Matt: sure.

Christina: But that's what I mean is that every person has to look through the lens of what are my responsibilities to the world?

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: What are my responsibilities to myself and my

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: and everyone around me? And what are going to be the consequences of this? So,

Matt: safety.

Christina: And personal safety. And so that's why I'm saying, I'm going to give everyone the grace of understanding that they know what's best for them and their career, but that does not [00:21:00] mean that they are excused from judgment.

Matt: Sure. Sure.

Christina: everyone is going to be judged on the other side of all of this.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Whether that be

Matt: Religious, moral, whatever.

Christina: yeah, whatever, the other side of this happens to be and if we're still alive for

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: That's what I'm saying is that everyone has to do what

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: to do for, their own personal reasons.

Matt: Yep. Agreed. Agreed.

Christina: Hmm.

Matt: So where does this leave us? Maybe, maybe with fewer answers than we started with. And honestly, that might be the point because whether writers speak up, stay quiet, or let their stories do the talking. Every choice carries weight. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum and neither do the people who make it, but how much of the creator we want and how much we're willing to separate from the work might say as much about us as it does about them.[00:22:00] 

So we'd love to know where you land on this. Do you want writers to challenge your worldview or just tell a damn good story however you feel. Keep the conversation going and we'll see you next time. Right out loud.

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