Exploring the Will-Not-Read List

Matt: [00:00:45] Welcome everybody to Write Out Loud the podcast about storytelling, authorship, all of those artistic things in between. So. we're confronting the will not Read list. You know those authors that you just refuse to open and the reasons aren't really necessarily about craft at all. it a moral stand? Is it maybe market fatigue? Maybe it's just instinctive rebellion because you're a hipster and I don't wanna like something that's cool that everybody else likes. never know what the reason might be, but they're on your do Not Read list. And as always, I am joined. By the Radiant, the rapid fire.

Brilliant. The unapologetically enthusiastic charmingly fiery literary lightning bolt. That is Christina.

Christina: Can I use some of these for like a resume, like your personality descriptions?

Matt: Yes, you can. Yes you can. Yeah. I mean, today's just really about digging into those reasons [00:01:00] why people have on their list, authors that they will not read.

Christina: Yeah. Do you have authors on your list That you won't read?

Matt: I have one for sure. And that's JK rolling.

Christina: Yeah, I concur.

Matt: like that's, that's on the list. Period. Done. End of story. Don't care what it is.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah. For me I don't really have ones for reasons other than either I've met them

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: and, and they're. not really great people.

Matt: Got it.

Christina: And it, that really does make it difficult. Like you can't dive in to a story and get lost in it when you're constantly like, I've met this person and they're

Matt: Sure.

Christina: a good person.

So, mine are more personal reasons beyond JK Rowling in this list I. This was actually on threads. Someone posted, what author will you, will you not read? Do not Pesco, who is not for you? And the top three [00:02:00] were JK Rowling, Neil Gaiman, and James Patterson. And actually top four were and Colleen Hoover was in there.

And so, initially, you and I started discussing Neil, Neil Gaman, and you were saying you still love his work and it's not proven that he did this. He's been accused of, sexual assault, sexual trafficking misconduct. Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: for.

Matt: to be clear about that, right? Like, so for, for me, for Neil Gaman, it's like when an artist or when an, when an individual is accused of something, but it hasn't been. Adjudicated, it hasn't been like, there is the concept of where there's smoke, there's fire, right? Like if,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: 38 women, 20 women, 10, 15, whatever it is, like all came forward and they had, stories about how this came, how this occurred and when it occurred and that, that sort of thing.

Like there's definitely something to that that gives you pause that makes you go, eh, God, I don't know. Right? Should I continue to

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: really like, support this person [00:03:00] on the off chance that it's a coordinated. Coordinated campaign against this individual. Right. It just, that's where I say like without evidence, without things like JK Rowling, I can see with my own two eyes what she's

Christina: Oh yeah, yeah,

Matt: Like it is blanket, it's out there. Like there's no questioning

Christina: yeah.

Matt: done

Christina: And with her, for me, it's not that she's just saying. That, she hates trans people. She's actively working against them

Matt: Correct.

Christina: British Parliament. And so that, that was the line for me because you can say you hate someone and still, you're not doing anything to harm them. You're just saying, well, I mean, okay, yes, words can harm, and she is.

One of the most wealthy and famous authors in the world. So there's always going to be something, but she is actively. Working to oppress So, and that's, that's a, that's a, you've already crossed the line. You've crossed the [00:04:00] line. As far as Neil Gaman goes, for me, that situation, I have never read his books.

I've watched Good Omens, but that was because David Tenet and uh, what's his name? Oh God, I'm. Michael Sheen. I wanted to call him Martin Sheen, and any of that was wrong. And I love those two. Those two have such chemistry, so wouldn't have mattered if the name behind it was Neil Gaiman or it was another, based on a different kind of book.

Anytime you put David Tenet and Michael Sheen together, I'm, I'm in. So I never really read his stuff, but I always admired what he said about writing and writers and. That I do find a little bit difficult to separate him, the person, because that's more biographical than it is fiction, you're not like with fiction, you're diving in and you're becoming lost in a different world.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: When you're looking at someone's. Words and comments. And he used to be, and I don't know if he still will, maybe [00:05:00] he'll be tainted by all the bad publicity. But he used to be so encouraging to, newbie writers and help them. So, I don't know, like you said, it's not, it's not been proven, but you know.

Matt: If there's enough to give

Christina: The damage is done. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt: think I, I'm okay with people making their own decision, right? If like, obviously people can make their own decision and say like, for me there's enough there. Like, I don't want to support him. I don't think it's worth it.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: I think each person kind of has to make that determination so.

Christina: Yeah. So, I recognized that when looking through this list, like I said, there were the top four authors that there were different levels. So there was that level of what we just talked about, that these people have done something egregious and really you can't separate, you can no longer separate the work.

The art from the artist.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: the next level I noticed was what I'll call the James Patterson [00:06:00] slash Flood, the market slash co-author. Hell, someone else on threads. I, I, I don't have this one directly in front of me, but somebody called it an industrial complex and I was like, okay, that's perfect.

For stating that. And I think you called it author fatigue, where someone has so many books out there. That they flooded the market. People are fatigued with hearing from them. And I think that's the James Patterson level. So it's not that his writing is bad or that he's done something, it's just that he's got, so much out there and a lot of it isn't really.

All his, like rarely do you see a book of his anymore that isn't co-authored with someone else. And there's rumors. I personally don't know how. It works with him and the co-author, but a lot of people have said, he, well, he, he himself [00:07:00] has said, I have so many stories in inside of me and I can't tell them all.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: According to rumor. And if someone knows and can point us in the direction of like, articles or something that he, comes up with the plot, either writes the outline or just passes it over to the author and the other author writes it, then it comes back to him and he, James Patterson sizes it.

Matt: Mm.

Christina: so you know the idea that, are you even reading him? Anymore is also a line of, some of the reasons why people are saying, Nope, won't read 'em anymore. He doesn't write his own books. He was good in the beginning when it was just him, they see the difference between the two.

Matt: It's interesting too that. I think there is, there is a question of whether or not that weakens a storytelling voice, right? When you start to get more than just

Christina: Yes.

Matt: themselves involved, are they, is it diluted? Is it really you? Does that matter? I mean, I guess that's the other question too, right?

To some people, clearly it does. 'cause they're saying, [00:08:00] Nope, I don't wanna read

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: And again, whether that's because of the co-authoring or just the sheerer volume of books, that that could be it. Is the. Is that, I guess, author burnout, is that really the fault of the author, or is it the reader like, I don't know.

That's interesting.

Christina: Well, again, using James Patterson as an example he's choosing to have all of these books comes out, come out with these co-authors now in more recent years. So when he first started doing that, there were unknown authors. Okay. Now. I've seen more. He's done several with Bill Clinton. He's done with, with Dolly Parton.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: to me that changes the dynamics a little bit.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: Do I still think that, like who's actually writing those books? Because I don't, I don't know if I see. Bill Clinton or Dolly Parton sitting down and writing the entire thing. So maybe those are [00:09:00] more collaborative.

Matt: Yeah, maybe

Christina: and I do think you mentioned something before about the voice of the book, is it?

Matt: voice.

Christina: Yeah. And I have seen. Some really good co-authors that they don't even call themselves co-authors, like, Christina, Lauren is one off the top of my head that it's, it's two female writers but they go by the pseudonym, Christina, Lauren. And I don't know, someone can correct me, but.

Maybe one's name is Christina and the other one's name is Lauren. I don't know.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: if it's just, I think Max Monroe is another one. And those are more seamless. Like those you can't tell, but it's also because they're writing all the books together and whatever way that they're choosing to do that, is doing that.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: but I think in the pace it, the for James Patterson. I do believe it's more this, author burnout, the flooding the market. I think that's where the hate is coming from. And it's also possible it's [00:10:00] coming from the fact that he's still so successful. I mean, he's, he's hugely successful. And I will say because of all of the Epstein files stuff This documentary on Netflix kept popping up and I was curious and it was actually produced by James Patterson and in fact he appears in it. That actually really intrigued me, where, I've read a couple James Patterson in the past when it was just him solo author. I'm not a big mystery reader because I don't like, I don't feel the mystery like other people like.

Turn the page. I'm always like, oh, okay, this is who did it. Okay, I'm done. But yeah, I was, I was really impressed with what he did with that. So maybe that's another direction in his storytelling that he personally is going. So, but yeah, that was another like level to this. I will not read this author anymore.

Matt: Well, I, I do wonder if that, [00:11:00] goes back to the question is that the author's fault, right? Flooding the market too much or the, the, the author burnout, if you will, reader burnout. Is that the author's fault or is that our fault as the reader for not mixing it up a little bit? Like, you

Christina: Pacing ourselves.

Matt: like, pacing

O kind of like mixing up with other authors in, in between.

Like,

Christina: well, s so yeah,

Matt: know.

Christina: no I think it's both. Because James Petterson has chosen to have this publishing schedule,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: has chosen to collaborate with all these different writers and put out these books. As that person SA said, it is an an, industrial complex.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: is a machine. It is, for all intents and purposes.

A business corporation. And so that is a choice, but it is also us as readers, our choice how many of those we read. So, 

Matt: is the point, right? Like it's

Christina: yeah.

Matt: the reader going, Nope, I'm done.

Christina: Yeah. So another, [00:12:00] another subset and this one I didn't even include in my list because it was kind of, stephen King. The biggest complaint about Stephen King in this list was that he was too scary to read.

So I don't even consider that, one of the reasons. But on the offshoot of that, I will say, me as a reader has chosen not to read, a category of Stephen King books.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I won't touch. But there's also a category of books that I will, that I find, he has a truly unique voice and it's excellent and, just fabulous storytelling.

So again, I think it comes down to reader choice and author choice as well.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: So, yeah.

Matt: other, I mean, we talked a lot about James Patterson in this category. Are there any other authors. That fit, that, that mold of like that industrial complex kind of

Christina: yeah, I would put Nora Roberts in there, but not in the same way. 'Cause she rarely co-authors, if at [00:13:00] all.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: but she also writes under. A couple different pseudonyms too. Her JD Rob stuff is mystery. And I do read those. Those are probably the only ones that are categories as mysteries, but I don't read it for the mystery.

I know the mystery's gonna be solved in each book,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: read it for the overarching story of the characters. I'm a character driven reader.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: have to have absolutely characters that I connect with. I don't have to love them. But I have to connect with them in a certain way. But Nora Roberts, hers is partially her choice, but it's also partially publisher's choice.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: the reason I say that is because in the God she started publishing, I don't know if it was the late seventies or early eighties but by the nineties she had so many early books. Now that she had become, hugely popular, Harlequin was [00:14:00] reprinting all these books all the time. And so the market, I believe, did become saturated a little bit, but that's because Harlequin wanted to, 

Matt: milk

Christina: of recoup, well, not just that, but also in a way I can understand this and I would've hoped that they would've worked with, her agent and Nora herself making these choices. Those books might not have been seen. And at the time an author becomes, this huge conglomerate. Most people haven't read those early books and do wanna go back.

When you find an author you love, you go back and read, their earlier works. That's why, a lot of authors say their bread and butter is their backlist because when someone discovers you, they go back and and read that. So she would be another one. I would put in that category.

Most authors are not as prolific as Nora. Even Stephen [00:15:00] King isn't as prolific. He doesn't have, hundreds of books.

Matt: not that. Yeah, not that prolific.

Christina: Yeah. Uh, it could even say Kristin Ashley, but she kind of paces herself. I think she has like about four books a year.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: So, but she's got, a hundred books plus now. So yeah, I think, I think there's a way of doing it. James Patterson chose to do it that way and I, I think that is why he gets some of the backlash that he does some of the hate that he does.

Which also brings us to what I consider category three.

Matt: Yes.

Christina: and that's the 80 20. So James Patterson is falling under that as well. 'cause he has. So many readers that you know, this 80 20 to remind people if they hadn't heard previous episodes that we talked about. This is a I don't know if you call it a theory or a proven uh, what's his name?

Oh my gosh, his name just.

Matt: basically.

Christina: Yeah, rule of thumb Malcolm Gladwell is the one who came up with this, this 80 20. And I [00:16:00] think it's, it's in the book The Tipping Point that if you become so popular, there is automatically going to be 20% that hate you. No matter what you do, you can't say or do anything to please them.

They are always just gonna hate you. Because you are so popular, and the more popular you get, the bigger that 20% is.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: If you've got a hundred fans, a hundred readers, 80 of 'em are gonna love you, 20 are gonna hate you.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: you get up into the millions, hundreds of millions of books sold, then you're.

Gonna have millions of people that hate you. So in that category, I call the Colleen Hoover group,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: because she was in this list of, the top three authors that people were hating. And I think it's,

Matt: kind of.

Christina: yeah, exactly. Popularity, backlash, and this, honest to God, I don't believe has anything to do with Colleen Hoover [00:17:00] herself or her books.

Certainly there are gonna be people that read her stuff and go, gross, why is this always on the bestseller list? I don't wanna read, a romance. Uh, I also think too part of this is because of fallout from the Enza with Us movie and the controversy surrounding it with Blake Lively, suing Justin Baldoni for, I don't know if it was sexual harassment or

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: hostile work environment, those sorts of things. So I do think some of that is from that, but I saw this hate before the movie even came out. People just wanting to hate her because she's so hugely popular.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: and at one point no joke, I think she had, like on the New York Times bestseller list, she had more than a half.

Her books were on One time.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: so you're always gonna have backlash with that. It's just a popular, like you said, popularity backlash. 20% is gonna hate you and [00:18:00] you kind of have to live with that.

Matt: Colleen Hoover, uh, Sarah J. Moss, uh, Stephanie Meyer. Right? Like all of them have had that piece because they've gotten so popular and in some cases so quickly that I think there are

Christina: Yes.

Matt: have that knee jerk reaction not gonna read that. I have, I have a, a friend of mine who we have constantly. comments and other friends have constantly made comments that Pluribus is such a great show and that they should watch it. And they just go, no, I'm good. I'm okay. I'm not gonna watch it reason. But

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: moment of like, I, I think, I think potentially there is some aspect of protecting one's own personal identity in that, like not wanting to fit in with the, with the group, because. They decide, Hey, this is super hugely popular. I don't wanna necessarily be like

Christina: Yeah,

Matt: So I think there's some of that to

Christina: yeah, the, the anti follow the crowd people. There are always gonna be people that just, you know what, I'm gonna beat my own drum, even if it's the wrong drum, [00:19:00] because I don't wanna be with everybody else. I don't wanna be in tune with everybody else. 

Matt: And

Christina: I do.

Matt: two, is that an act of principle or is that a performance?

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: it just to show off or are

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: you really, truly feel like there's some reason not to

Christina: Right,

Matt: on that bandwagon?

Christina: right. I do have a different viewpoint too, of that bandwagon, and we've talked about it on the podcast before. It's the storytelling versus writing and the Stephanie Meyer story. I do think, and I wanna read a comment from one of the people who replied to this because this is kind of the point.

He replied none as in, there's no authors that he refuses to read. There's always something to learn or steal, even if the author is human feces. Now I don't know about the human feces part, but that was me with Stephanie Meyer. I can admit. She's not the greatest writer out there, but she was a really good storyteller and there was something to [00:20:00] learn there.

I mean, she's so hugely popular, so I do think it is worth specifically writers. It is worth your time. Coleen Hoover, you've never read her, but she's hugely popular. Read one of her books and go, okay. I'm not reading this for enjoyment. Pleasure. I am reading this to figure out why she has captivated such a large audience.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: Same thing, I've always said with Stephanie Meyer, that's, something there. So, yeah, so the Colleen Hoover level, I, is it fair hate? No.

Matt: No,

Christina: But, but you know what if you wanna sell millions of copies of your books, then kind of prepare yourself. Like the more books you sell, that the vocal piece of the crowd is going to be that 20% of the haters.

Matt: Oh, for sure.

Christina: So, yeah.

Matt: Yeah. And you gotta have, you gotta be prepared for that. [00:21:00] Absolutely.

Christina: Yeah. I laughed a little bit because. Someone replied on here that their, their author that they will not read as Herman Melville. And I just, I just thought to myself, okay, first of all, he's not writing any new books. Second of all, doesn't he just have like one book out?

Matt: Yeah, I dunno. It's like saying I don't wanna read Edgar Allen Poe. I refuse,

Christina: well, no, no, no, no, no, no. He is so good. Edgar Allen Poe is a different story for sure. Yeah. But yeah, it was just, it was such a, it was such an interesting thread to read. People's perspectives are just, so unique and yeah, there, but I saw that pattern there were three levels to this,

Matt: cool.

Christina: Hate.

Matt: Yep. I mean, at the end of the day, every reader is gonna have their will not read list. And whether they admit it or not, it's just, it's a thing. Sometimes it's about principles, sometimes it's about exhaustion, and sometimes it's just about ego. But every time we close a book, before opening it, we're making a statement [00:22:00] about our values, our identity, and the stories that were willing to let shape us. So maybe the real question is, should we read them? Maybe the real question is why won't we read them? But if your bookshelf is a mirror, yours reflect? Think about that and thanks for tuning in. This, of course, is right out loud. I.