Romance on Ice: The Compelling Story of 'Heated Rivalry'

Matt:  [00:00:45] Welcome everybody to write Out Loud the podcast about storytelling, authorship, writing, creativity, and all that fun stuff. Today we are talking about a book that did not just skate into the romance world. It checked into the boards and refused to apologize.

Christina: Okay.

Matt: Heated rivalry by Rachel Reed is enemies to lovers.

There's slow burn rivals on the ice, feral off the ice, perfection, and somehow manages to be a tender, brutal, funny, and devastating story all at once. I mean, this is a story about obsession. It's about denial, intimacy, and what happens when the person you're supposed to hate is the only one who really sees you.

I'm Matt, and of course I'm joined by the luminous, enthusiastic, emotionally perceptive chaos. Embracing Christina,

Christina: Ooh.

Matt: is.

Christina: Embracing,

Matt: She is. Yeah.

Christina: do

Matt: She's

Christina: chaos.

Matt: ready to talk about IA Shane, and many, many feelings that these books inspire. So, lace up. Let's take a deep breath and let's [00:01:00] get into heated rivalry. So, okay. Chaos and embracing.

Christina: a chaos. Embracing, okay, chaos. Embracing in my, uh, fiction.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: TV shows and things like that in life. No, no, no, no, no, no. Please.

Matt: Yeah. That's fair.

Christina: No chaos, no drama.

Matt: That's fair. So have you, have you seen the HBO show? Have you watched through it? Okay. Good deal. Good deal.

Christina: Waited until it all came out, and

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Binged it. I, I did not read the books.

Matt: Okay.

Christina: But mostly because I wasn't aware of the books before the show

Matt: Same.

Christina: so, and it's not that I won't read the books, I just, haven't yet.

And also sometimes I have discovered that I, I kind of like to leave, like if I've watched a TV show first before the books like. It be the TV [00:02:00] show, and then when the TV show is done, maybe then I go to the books if I'm, still missing IA and Shane. And the thing I will say about heated rivalry, that I think, I think some people, are really honing in on others are looking at different things.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: But I have to say I was absolutely shocked when I discovered a Connor Storie not in fact Russian. And, and he is Texan. And that actually put a totally different view of his acting,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: And not just because of the accent stuff. Uh, something that I noticed very early on, and this isn't something that you don't see very [00:03:00] often. And I don't know if it's because she's on my mind or. Uh, I know it's because she's on my mind, but Catherine O'Hara was

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: good at this where you could read the expression on her face like I'm thinking of, the Beetlejuice Deo scene where she

Matt: Oh yeah.

Christina: and the expression on her face is what the bleep is going on. So, I mean, it conveys so much. And the reason I'm. Making that parallel is because with Connor Storie, I actually got so much more out of his side of stuff. I think because of his micro expressions. Like you knew his home life was like. You knew how he felt about his dad and his brother. And there were scenes where, he would be. And I think it was [00:04:00] early on he was with his dad and I don't even know who else it was. And the dad was like kind of nitpicking at stuff the expression on Ilya's face. So I think, it would be interesting to see what else in the books. Did they reveal a lot of that stuff or was that, in there? I think it is a hugely compelling story and not just because, like, the thing that didn't get me about it wasn't the, like they hate each other.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: 'cause I don't think that, I never really saw it as hate.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: always thought it, thought of it as competition.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: so competitive. They both wanted to be number one, so badly. But there was such respect

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: underlying that competition, so I can't call it hate.

Matt: Yeah, I, I don't think it was hate, I think it was [00:05:00] feigned hate because I think they had sort of this stage throughout where they were kind of, talking about each other or asked about one another, and it was like, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think they were fiercely competitive. They were very much, they had a lot of respect for each other, but they would not let that show publicly.

So publicly they had this whole thing, even with his, even with Shane's parents, it was, oh, I hate that. I hate that guy.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: Screw ia. Like, I don't, I hate him.

Christina: Well,

Matt: but it wasn't even, I don't think it was legit hate, like, I think it was part of it because he had feelings for him,

Christina: yeah, so this is, this is also where again, having read the books, it, uh, someone correct me if this isn't the way it was in the books, but, Shane was not so sure about his own sexuality.

Matt: Right.

Christina: Okay. IA, on the other hand, knew exactly who he was. Okay. So I think Shane's that, I hate this guy to his [00:06:00] parents, was more about his sexuality than it was about actually

Matt: Yeah. Well, I agree with that.

Christina: to hate,

Matt: Yeah

I think.

Christina: that reason.

So I think that was, part of that disguise.

Matt: Yeah, I think it was, I think it was both to, to a degree as well. I do think there was a big part of that for sure. But I also did see that Amilia when people would ask him about Shane too, where he, publicly, he would say, make comments, or even some of his teammates would make comments. '

Christina: Cause it

Matt: it's an interesting, it's an interesting breakdown in terms of.

Again, that sort of rivals to lovers sort of motif right in, in story. But what I really loved about the overall story and the overall show, once all episodes had dropped and we watched it, like there were so many moments and, and me as a gay man absolutely identifying with specific things that happened, just even little movements, little.

Physical moments that they had that were just very minor, tiny, tiny little things.

Christina: Mm-hmm.[00:07:00] 

Matt: ways they sort of expressed themselves like, when I wanna say Sophia. Hmm. I think that's her name. What the hell's her name? His, his girlfriend for a bit. The famous one.

It is Rose.

Christina: Rose. Yeah.

Matt: So Rose Landry. So when he, when Rose asks him in the diner scene, have you, have you been with a guy before and he. Reluctantly finally nods. And then she said, was it better? And just that moment of like seeing him both at the same time, release that tension, but also still build up that tension because now he's like admitting it out loud to someone else,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: uh, was just.

Devastating. I mean, it's just emotionally like it hits, and I know there's a lot of people that can identify with that feeling and with the feelings that they, they had, like even in the, the final episode when he's, [00:08:00] they're talking to his parents and Shane starts to have a panic attack, and Ilya's, starts to comfort him.

Like just little, little tiny things that he did both physically and, as an actor, like just was insanely, insanely good.

Christina: Yeah, and I, for me, as a lifelong romance reader. I give romances a lot of room various ways, but the one way I am a stickler, I am absolutely a stickler is if I cannot see this couple ends up together.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: do not understand, if I don't feel that Uhuh, I have a

Matt: Mm-hmm.[00:09:00] 

Christina: Because I didn't watch it until all of the episodes were out. Of course online I'm hearing, oh, the cottage is coming up. The cottage is coming up. but I want to harken back one episode

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: The other hockey teammate. Wins the, what is

Matt: Yeah, Scott.

Christina: Yeah, Scott.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: his team wins and then he calls down the guy. Is such a turning point for Shane and Ilya where they see a world in which they can be potentially out. There's two things that I wanna say about that. And number one is, I don't know if you either saw on Drew Barrymore or saw an article, there was a hockey

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: that after the show came out, [00:10:00] decided to come out.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: I saw this and it, so number one, representation. Once again,

Matt: Oh yeah.

Christina: there is so much validity in. Having representation in books where people can see themselves and know, understand that there is a place for them.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: And the other thing I wanna say about that, because to me, yes, seeing the big picture of the, boyfriend coming down and all of that, but actually what captured me most about that scene was the dad sitting next to him.

Matt: Yes.

Christina: The pride on that dad's face and the happiness and the everything. And it also reminds me of Rose and all of those people that came together. All of [00:11:00] KIPP's coworkers and friends and stuff. of these people who are supportive. Our pieces of the puzzle, this

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: about Shane and Ilya, was about the people that they had surrounding them, both good and bad, because, Ilya with, uh, his Russian home life. The thing is he had the love hate relationship.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: to have home, and that's why he had to be closeted because he could never go home again if he ever, came out. 

Matt: Yep.

Christina: why it's interesting, can't wait for season two to find out what, does he go to that other Canadian hockey team and do they start the, charity that they talked about

Matt: Right.

Christina: so that, I also, there's an interesting parallel that we've talked about heart stopper, on [00:12:00] this podcast. and I saw a similarity between the heart stopper mom during that coming out scene and Shane's mom during

Matt: Yes.

Christina: out scene, and both of them. Said, if I ever said anything, know, and the difference was, Shane's mom was a little bit, anti-gay maybe made some comments here and there. That kind of did make him, question whether or not they were gonna be supportive. So I think, yeah, I think one of the things that'll be interesting in the next season will also be does she continue to have issues with it or is it all, 

Matt: yeah. Yeah.

Christina: done and we're moving forward and I love my son no matter what

Matt: I've seen a few articles too talk about this, this show, and [00:13:00] one, there's a consensus in, in some instances too, where what they're talking about and why it's so popular is that there is, it's challenging toxic masculinity without lecturing.

Christina: Oh

Matt: Like there's a good. Just sort of, it's woven into the story without having to be like, Ugh, can you not be a douche bag?

Can you not be, a misogynist? Can you not be this, can you not be that? Like, it's just really legit about the feelings that these people have for each other and the way that they interact with one another and, and how they all kind of coexist in the same space and, take up that space together.

So it is interesting rumor has it, I don't know if this is true or not, but it was in a little clip that both, uh, Connor story and Hayden had done where they unboxed like a little puck that said he did rivalry season two, and they said it's on, and then they, and then Connor made some comment about.

Read the long game if you wanna know what happens. And that's like the last book ish. There's one that's coming out in September, but that's [00:14:00] right now the last published book, uh, is book six. So I don't know, we'll see. Kind of, if that's just

Christina: Oh,

Matt: of throw everybody off or is she, are we really jumping to the end of the, the series

Christina: series, 'cause I, obviously, again, so six books in the series

Matt: currently? Yes. Seven to be done.

Christina: Okay. Seven altogether. So, maybe they're thinking, okay, this is more limited than not, meaning, we're going to shrink. What happened?

Matt: or do they do, hopefully they don't do what they did to Game of Thrones

Christina: I,

Matt: and

Christina: too long.

Matt: like rush outta material. No, they rushed through it so quickly that they had to like start making their own stuff up. 

Christina: I'm

Matt: but I think

Christina: if there's. This first

Matt: I.

Christina: just based on one book, or if this was kind of, if it was more than one book, so

Matt: This one is based mostly on book two, which is heated, heated rivalry. But then KIPP and Scott's entire story is book one. So they get, they get kind of woven [00:15:00] into it.

Christina: see.

Matt: So, I don't know. 3, 4, 5, 6, I don't know yet, but.

Christina: people.

Matt: Yep. Or it might just be more of them altogether. And maybe this, maybe this initial season was truly like all of this in one

Christina: yeah. Uh,

Matt: I, I think we got mostly, uh, my gut says it's gonna be just one and two in this first season, but I have started reading the book, so I, I'll let you know.

Christina: Well, yeah, and that makes me curious, like if, if this one is gonna be based off of book six.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Do they only intend on doing two seasons or three seasons? 

Matt: Yeah. Or do they do 'em out of order on purpose? Like that's the, this is the beginning, that's the future, and then they go back and can they fill in the, fill in the blanks? In other seasons, it would seem weird.

Christina: I'm sure it would really help if we had actually read

Matt: It would, it would, we'd have more answers, wouldn't we?

Christina: Yes.

Matt: Yeah. But it's, it is, I, I I, the other [00:16:00] kind of thing I wanna make about this is the fact that we have talked about this a lot on the podcast before, show versus Tell again, it's a movie. Yes, there's more show, but. Just by nature of it. But this one was a masterclass in how you show that someone is feeling a certain way or doing a certain thing to make their intentions known.

Like this was phenomenal and so, so much physicality that you had to see in order for it to truly communicate what was going on.

Christina: Y Yeah, there was a lot of, again, I'll talk about the micro expressions from Connor story, the actor portraying thoughts, feelings, other things. So this was, this was one of those shows Absolutely 100% I was not doing something else. Because you had to watch. You had to watch because there were things that were unspoken,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: That, were being [00:17:00] conveyed. So

Matt: Just the little feet touch, like the little foot touch, or the, the slight little, like hands shifting on the, in the sand or on the, on the field, whatever it was. But just those moments of like that small physicality that speaks volumes. It shouts, I love you or I want you, or whatever. Right. But but doesn't actually come out and say it because they couldn't.

Christina: Yeah. What are things that you're hoping for in season two? What do

Matt: Hmm, that's a good question. Uh, I really would like to see more maybe, honestly, I'd like maybe see some more backstory on Shane and Ilia as they're growing up, kind of things that they did and what they kind of went through. I'd love to see some of that. I don't know for sure that that's gonna be the, what comes of it.

But I would love to see that sort of an origin story, if you will. But I also would love to see now where, where do they go from here? Like where,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: happens with Scott and Kipp, right? It, having not read the books fully. Where do we go? [00:18:00] What does this look like? And we're gonna find out for sure, because it is, uh, it is forthcoming.

But yeah, just stellar, stellar, stellar, stellar show.

Christina: Yeah, I I want to see in his freedom.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: feel like he had been holding back so much because. Once you do get to the cottage, it's like he's free.

Matt: Yes,

Christina: He is free. And it's almost as if he's a different person.

Matt: a hundred percent.

Christina: Maybe, Shane saw the real him, but now the rest of the world might get to see the real him.

And

Matt: Yep.

Christina: actually something that I had read that like made me go, oh my God, that brings so much difference. to the scene, but it's the scene the parents and IA is eating

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: and everything. And there's a moment where Shane is like, stop [00:19:00] eating. Like, and Connor Storie was actually saying that he hadn't had carbs the entire season. And the plate of pasta was right in front of him and he just wanted to dive into that. it really made me, I mean, like when I was seeing that scene for the, for the first time without knowing that story, I actually thought, and it, and it's possible that this is just the way it worked out and it's magic. It was so funny to me that was like, I burst out laughing and it, it, it did make me feel like we are finally seeing the true

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: and I can't wait to wait to see more of him.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: I also do want to see more depth to Shane.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I think Shane, we've only cracked the surface because he was hiding so much.

Matt: Yep.

He had 10,000 foot walls.

Christina: yeah, exactly.[00:20:00] 

And even with his parents and how the coming out scene, unfolds, I still think there's so much depth to him.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: but the idea that he is already trying to figure out how do we be together still be comfortable with, what's happening between us?

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: As a story, as a whole, a lot of people like to, label especially L-G-B-T-Q stories.

Oh, this is a coming out story, or this is just a, slice of life story. I don't think you can actually call the first

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: because they only came out, to his pa to Shane's parents. There's no implication, obviously, that IA is gonna come out to his family whatsoever. But the fact that they haven't come out yet, that's also something that I, it would [00:21:00] be interesting to see how they're gonna address that, like

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: I would hope

Matt: Yeah. I.

Christina: of the series, so maybe not even in season two or whatever, that they, do end up being public.

Matt: Like a public facing couple. Yeah,

Christina: but you know, maybe not.

Maybe that's not part of their

Matt: I do wanna say, going back to Ilia and just being, kind of being free now that it was out in the open, he didn't have to hide who he was in that, in that place, right in that space. Like it, it's brilliant because. He really does. It makes much more sense in my head now that I think back to it, now that you've said that as well, because, I was, for a little bit of it, I was like, wait a minute.

Like, why is he all of a sudden, like I, I thought it was wonderful that he was being so tender and, and caring for Shane when he was having his panic attack. And he is like, you're safe, you're with your family and your boyfriend. And he is like, well, did you say boyfriend? He's like, well, yes, duh.

Or something like that. Like, like basically like, well, yes, I guess if you want but he. It, it [00:22:00] for a bit of it. I was like,

Christina: We're

Matt: well, they, they said that twice, but this was when he said, your boyfriend's here. And he goes, boyfriend. Really? And he goes, well, yes, I guess if you want, or something like that. Like,

Christina: Yeah,

Matt: Like, yes, you idiot.

Christina: episodes again.

Matt: It's so great. But it was that moment of, there was a point where I was just like, why is this Ilia so different? And I think you hit it on the head. He just had complete relief of, I'm completely free, I can be who I wanna be. I'm not going back home. I've made that, he's made that decision.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: cut off his brother and everything. Right. So he's like, I'm, I don't have anything to lose. Like, everything is, is, is fine,

Christina: Yeah. And

Matt: here in the space.

Christina: And it really is only in that moment after Scott and Kipp make things public and and it's Ilya who makes the call and says, I'm coming to the cottage,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: because it's in that moment that he decides, you know what, even if they don't come out, if they don't do that thing on the ice, that Scott and Kip do, has decided [00:23:00] that at least with Shane. He can be free.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: can be

Matt: And as,

Christina: And I

Matt: as long.

Christina: and and I do think he was holding himself back in a lot of ways with Shane as well, because he had to be this persona.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: it wasn't just, again, about the sexuality. It was about, he had to be number one, he had to compete with Shane. He had to do all, and I think we're, or at least I hope. That we're gonna see a very, very different Ilea in

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: two.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. And I, I, I, one of my other favorite scenes is when he panics because the, the loon calls

Christina: Mm,

Matt: he's like, what is that? Oh my God. Like he freaks out and he is like, is that a wolf? This stupid Canadian wolf bird?

Christina: I think season two is gonna be so hilarious because I really hope they lean into that because he does it great.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: does it [00:24:00] great

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: I, and I think that's just it, is that in some ways he is more sophisticated than Shane,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: but in some ways he is so much more innocent

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. It's true.

Christina: or

Matt: It is true.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: Well, so whether you came to heated rivalry for the Rivals to Lover's Chaos, the Slow Burn yearning, or let's be honest, the Vibes, what really makes it endure is the storytelling craft underneath it all, the tension is earned. The vulnerability is deliberate, and every choice serves that emotional payoff.

It's a reminder that great stories don't just give readers what they want. They understand why readers want it in the first place. So we'd love to know what hooked you most about this book or the show. Is it the rivalry, secrecy, the emotional honesty? Like what something else entirely, maybe however you landed there.

Thanks for skating through this one with us and we will see you next time on Right Out Loud. [00:25:00] I.

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