Spotlight On: Literary Agent Lissa Woodson

Matt Cassem: [00:00:00] Welcome to Write Out Loud, the podcast where pages come alive. Voices, find their stories and storytellers shape the world one word at a time. I'm your co-host, Matt, and every episode we dive deep into the magic and mechanics of writing, storytelling, authorship, and all [00:01:00] the creative arts that bring imagination to life today.

As always, I'm joined by my co-host, the captivating, the clever, and continually creating Christina. She's a connoisseur of craft, a champion of characters in the creative compass of our conversations. Hello. 

Christina Trevaskis: Oh my God. The alliteration on that one 

Matt Cassem: just for you. 

Christina Trevaskis: I actually missed that all summer. Having someone on cue say all these nice things about me.

I didn't get any of that this summer at all. 

Matt Cassem: It has been a break. We've been, uh, doing lots of stuff behind the scenes and yeah, it just wasn't the same. Yeah, well, I'm excited because today isn't just any episode. We are actually joined by an industry insider who pulls back the curtain on the publishing world.

It is a dream defender and a manuscript matchmaker acclaimed literary agent, Lisa Woodson. Lisa helps tomorrow's authors find their place in the bookshelf, guiding stories from query to contract and beyond. So settle in, let the inspiration flow, and let's write out loud. [00:02:00] Welcome, Lisa. 

Lissa Woodson: Hey, thank you so much for having me.

Christina Trevaskis: So I'm really excited about this one. We have not had the opportunity to talk to an agent, uh, but she's also been other things. She is an author as well. She started as an editor, so she has so much knowledge from the industry. So while we're gonna ask her, of course, some of those literary.

Literary agent questions, we're also gonna dive into some other things. 

Matt Cassem: Yeah, absolutely. Lisa, tell us a little bit about yourself, a little more about your background, let you expand on what Christina just said, and uh, anything else you wanna share before we dive right in with the questions. 

Lissa Woodson: I love that you all have a podcast that dale's into l so many different things that are literary related.

And to have me on today to discuss the thing that, one thing that is close to my heart is I hear a lot of. Authors giving up. Hmm. Yeah. Because they equate their [00:03:00] success with the amount of book sales. And of course that is one factor, but there's so many other things to look at before they give up, and that's what I really want to approach.

Matt Cassem: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah, it's a really great angle to look at because I don't think, uh, especially new writers getting into this, especially right now in the industry, it's not. Like it was, five, even 10 years ago when someone could write and hit it big with their first book. You know what I'm seeing today, and it sounds like you're seeing something similar is that, uh, there's more to it now than just, the book sales in the beginning.

Lissa Woodson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Matt Cassem: Yeah. Tell us more about that. Like what, what are some of the things that you, as you're working with your authors, what are some of the ways that you sort of guide them around that by pointing them to other indicators of maybe success or growth? 

Lissa Woodson: For them to share their wisdom as local libraries cover their own backyard.

One of my people they didn't have a book out yet, but [00:04:00] they didn't have a platform. So what did I do? She connected with her libraries to talk about how she landed an agent. Hmm. And in that, what did she do? She gathered up people to start following her on Instagram and other places like that, and I was like, genius.

Because that's what we need to do is that people need to know you. Those are the first people who buy your books are people within your circle of influence. So you have to change that. It isn't, people really rely on family members and sometimes those aren't the first people who buy your book. And then we also put the onus on them to show support by shelling out dollars.

No, shell out information if they can't buy the book. They know somebody who does who, who would, they can take the information to their jobs. They can take it to, they know somebody at book clubs. I think they lock it in at, I need to see dollars across. And they equate that with book love. And there's more to it than that.

My brother probably has not read a fiction book [00:05:00] ever, ever. He got outta school by the skin of his teeth. But what he did was he taught me about selling myself. And he taught me about selling other people. He stood outside of my first book signing. It was empty. It was downtown Chicago, and he took my book outside, hadn't read it.

Never still have ever read it. He held it up in his hands. My sister wrote this book and you need to buy it because it's good and it's my sister, let me tell you. Yeah, it was supposed to be an hour long signing. I was late getting back to work because his belief in that brought all of these people into that store, and I did two or three more signings after that because here it is.

Somebody promoting, doing their part of it, yeah. As well as when he was at the nightclub, he would tell he was the dj, he would get on the mic and do what? My sister wrote a book, da da. My thing is, other people can help to promote you and [00:06:00] that's, that equated to how much money that too. Also doing things at places where you can have pleasure in it.

Family reunions. Mm-hmm. Ask them, Hey, can I set up a table? Okay, can I do X, Y, Z? And you can make it. Or part of the gift bags, Hey, I have gift bags I wanna give. And what do you do? You have your promo material or a sample chapter of your books because what, that's a whole hundred, 200 people that can do what?

Take that information back to other people who read, even if it isn't them. Then they'll be, oh, she big time. She's, got the sun. It's little things like that. Church picnic. All of these things different places. If you're a Youth YA author, why aren't you connecting with the Boys and Girls Club or the big brothers, big sisters of Metropolitan than wherever, already doing speaking engagements, getting the parents to know you.

The thing about it is most [00:07:00] people don't really hit the ground running until the book is three months out from being published and that's a little too late. You're about to write, write a book. Make sure you start doing your marketing early and say, you know what? I need to do this, this, this, this, and this.

Do not discount hand-to-hand sales. Hmm. I have started doing a thing, and this is what I do for my authors, is I connect with people who are doing intimate events. I'm doing the Royal Book Bash. That is in the DMV. Well, there are book bashes on Saturday. And I'm paying for air and hotel to get there, right?

Mm-hmm. Well, I wanna make sure I make my money back. So what do I do? I book the ballroom on Friday night and do what? I'll come out and play with an Elena Kai party. It's free and open to the public, and they come in, they play games, they'll get books, they'll have a great time, it'll loosen the pockets, whatever, but they get to know me.

And then what am I doing? I am advertising on my Facebook page, but I also paid about 20 bucks to do what? [00:08:00] Facebook ads to boost it. Facebook runs on money. Mm-hmm. So go ahead. And as soon as I launched that event on my, from my personal page, I have a professional dashboard on my personal page. I started getting ticket sales just today, immediately within like five minutes of it going and being boosted $20.

To market and promote to people who live in that area that I wouldn't know that lived in that area, but they're on my friends list. Hmm. So there's so many different ways that you can approach this and it doesn't cause an arm and a leg and a couple of toes. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah. 

Matt Cassem: That's great. 

Christina Trevaskis: I also wanna circle back to what you said in the very beginning with someone who doesn't have the book out yet.

I think a lot of people go, oh, I'm, I don't need to do anything until the book is out because I can't sell anything if the book isn't out. But what you said about building your platform, that's building your readership. Before the book comes out. Yes. One thing that I think [00:09:00] all platforms still allow you to put up pre-orders.

Even if you're, if you're with a publisher, they're gonna put you up for a pre-order. But if you're a a self-published. Publishing on your own. I believe you can still put up a pre-order, but even before you do that, like you said, go to the library, start building your audience. Develop your newsletter, put interesting things in there in the newsletter.

Yeah, I think that's a really great point. Hand selling. Fabulous. I mean, that's, there's no better way. I mean, how lucky are you to have that brother that would do that? That's not even read the book. Oh my 

Lissa Woodson: gosh. 

Christina Trevaskis: But, I'm cool. They're, toting for you. No. So, maybe find someone in your life who is a, an extreme extrovert.

Matt Cassem: Yes. 

Christina Trevaskis: And, uh, that, may be able to do some of that, shouting from the rooftops for you. Really like those ideas. Those are great. 

Matt Cassem: Yeah, absolutely. I will say too, I think there's an opportunity to connect with your local indie bookstores around the area also. Right? Like, I think sometimes they, [00:10:00] they like to get to know their local authors and that gives you a chance to really get in there and, and they're more interested too, if they, if you've built a relationship with them, they're more interested in supporting you and bringing you in and doing signings and things like that because they know you.

Yeah. And they know, what you, what you bring to the table. 

Christina Trevaskis: And the other thing is, uh, bookstore insider here, if you actually go and introduce yourself, and this is before your book is out, go introduce yourself. Let them know what's happening. I'm a local author. If you get, a certain number of copies, I'll come in and sign them.

Uh, they may suggest doing a little bit of a. Here's a local person display, which would be really great. But especially if you're an indie author it same goes for, someone publishing. Uh, traditionally they may not know who you are, so they may not carry your book, but they will carry your book if they know that you are going to help them hand sell it.

So that's another way too to work with that independent bookstore. 

Matt Cassem: [00:11:00] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, we, you and I were talking a little bit over the weekend. And I know that you were, you were being pitched to, uh, for some, some things. Uh, when you think about the, the work that gets presented to you, like what stands out to you first when you read a manuscript or you see a submission for the first time?

Like, what are you really looking for? What you know, what works for you? 

Lissa Woodson: So it's different because I get the pictures, I get the pictures from different places. But let me tell you what, it was a slam dunk. There's this guy, his name is Ian's, and. I'm not supposed to be taking any new clients, right? 'cause I wanna work on the ones I already have, but I'm still nosy.

So people who slide through and say it says by referral only, right? But they still try to slide through anyway. I still kind of look 'cause I still don't wanna miss the one his pitch. Just one paragraph. And I said, let me see if he delivers on his writing. I scammed the first page. Ready to [00:12:00] sign em. 

Matt Cassem: Nice.

Lissa Woodson: Then I said, maybe let me, let me, let me not see. Then I threw the first chapter to my editorial team, and that's Angel Payne, Stephanie Freeman, Ellen, Kylie Goler, and Tracy Finley. I said, so it's not just me feeling this way, let me see what they said. All of them said that hits, it's a mystery. Hal's diner.

It's a murder over east and it is. It is. So, but here was the problem. At first, he was ready to give up on this whole process and self-publish. He was set to self-publish on in November, and in the time that it would take for me to read it and give him an answer, I did not wanna mess up his chances to release.

I'm sure he could write another book and another book, right? So I got on the horn with him. Let me tell you, he took that book down so fast. He took that book down so fast, that faith alone, I signed him. I signed them, and when I say it [00:13:00] was that one paragraph was a hook. Nice. And the writing delivered, I go with my gut when it comes to that, because there are people, there's so many submissions that come through and how I tend, uh, stem the tide is, I say buy referral only.

So it comes from, my developmental editors will say, oh, I just, I just edited this book. You've got to take a look. Or a current client, Hey, I've got this person such and such and such. I get it from there, or family members of whatever. But when it comes to query tracker, people who I absolutely do not know, it has to sell from that pitch.

Do not ramble. Just get it in the voice of the character. Get it in, and make sure that the, the sample that you attach to it, that it delivers. I've had some that's attached that look like textbooks, like they, they're writing essays. There's like one. One had no quotation marks, no dialogue tags [00:14:00] throughout the, please make sure your work is professionally edited before you submit to me or any, any agent.

If we have to hit all of these speed bumps before we get to the Goodwood, it's an automatic no, because there's some people who are already learning the craft, done all the things, and we get that in and we're gonna accept this. This guy was a pretty tight writer. He could still use. Just that one last round.

I'm ready to shop him. I'm actually supposed to get on a call with him to look for Target. We're going to work together to get the targets together. I gave him his assignment. He's a prolific writer. 

Christina Trevaskis: When you talk about targets, so you're gonna get together and talk about targets, are you saying who to pitch this to?

As far as targets? Yeah. Acquisitions editors, yes. Okay. Acquisitions editors 

Lissa Woodson: I work with, we do a Zoom and how I work, I'm very transparent as an agent. Is that you're on the Zoom and we are picking them up. I gave him an assignment 'cause I'll need him to come up with his 10 by [00:15:00] looking at some of his favorites and all that.

We're gonna take those. Then I already have my list who I wanna go through and we're gonna combine it and see, look, research each person, each acquisitions editor, and say this will be a perfect fit. What was the last thing they purchased? What was the, are they hot right now? Are they just did a lot of deals and they're not looking to do anything else right now.

There's a lot of factors that go into that. And we look at it together. So when I'm about to pitch, they see the letters, they get to look at 'em and approve 'em before I send out. 'cause more eyes on it is the better. Mm-hmm. We get a one paragraph pitch, one paragraph bio, and I do my thing at the beginning and at the end they see everything.

They know where it's going, who it's going, and when it went to, when it went, when it went out. And that to me. I'm, I'm an author too, and I had an agent and I've been that person waiting four or five, six months to hear something and I'm not like that. Yeah. I have a messenger chat in the background [00:16:00] that all of my client, most, the majority of my clients are in there, so they see when I'm sending somebody out and they're sending up the well wishes and the fingers crossed and all of that, they know if I'm working for that person.

I'm also working for them too, so they're not left wondering. What's going on? So I don't get a lot of calls. Hey, have you heard about this? Have you heard about that? No, I've actually, let me, let me cycle to this and I know you gotta come, Tina, I gotta share this. 

Christina Trevaskis: Go ahead. 

Lissa Woodson: There was an author I picked up, his name is Chad Corey, and he does graphic novels and just amazing guy romantic fantasy sci-fi.

I met him three years ago at the American Library Association event. They had something here in Chicago. He was about to close his line. And it, it wasn't that I was interested in the book. I love the characters that he did, just saw it on the poster and I just wanted a poster and I wanted the poster signed and, but the line was closed.

He opened the line back up just for me to get that signature and I was the only one that got it. Nice. Here comes three, [00:17:00] three years later. He doesn't even remember that 'cause he didn't know my name. He comes and he needs an agent because a dark horse is shuttering some of their. Uh, agents off, 'cause they're about to make some big moves or whatever.

So he needs an agent now to find a home for his backlist. He and I went and I looked him up. I'm like, I know him. And just from remembering how kind he was and how he got to me, he went from one agent was passed by, one that dropped him in the lab, dropped him in the lab, and he kept getting passed around like bad weed.

I was to say. And I don't even smoke weeds, but he was a thing and I said no. I said, finish your term out there. And then when they finally say, no, I'll be ready for you. So he came back. Now it was gonna be a uphill battle because it is back list and they want new stuff, but here is it. Here it is.

We chose the targets together. He came up with some wonderful ideas. I came up with some ideas, have a [00:18:00] manuscript wishlist chat that I have my clients in that they look through anything that comes to me and I've. Drop industry information in. So we got the 15, we got three, we put out 15. I got three bites immediately of people who already know his story as far as what's going on that is backlist.

They still wanna take a look. That was very promising. Wow. Very promising. And I'll tell you the flip side, there was one person I almost picked up, almost picked up. The writing was a little stiff and I said, okay, we can work with stiff, we can unsen some stuff. Gotcha. Well, that person was on social media, on a Facebook group.

I'm in that Facebook group, and I saw her blast, another agent. She blasted that agent because she felt that agent said they couldn't relate, and it's because they were of the same ethnic background. She felt that she should. And it wasn't that she blasted her. That was one red flag. Second red flag was [00:19:00] I looked at the responses of the people in the comments.

I looked at how she responded to them. I said, she's gonna be a prop. Mm-hmm. Ah. So I had already called her and I was waiting for a call back. It was a wrap. Yeah. Why? Because we look at those things. We are in these. Groups we're watching social media. That's how I knew the guy was about to publish. I went to his social media, then I went to Amazon.

I was like, he's about to pu. Let me not destroy his chances on that. He's about to do his thing, but if he had published that book, let's go back to Murder Over Easy, it would've been a little harder to push him because then they're gonna wanna see sales. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah. Then the publishing 

Lissa Woodson: houses will wanna see sales, whereas him being a debut author coming through the gate.

Baby. Yeah, it's gonna be so 

Christina Trevaskis: nice. 

Lissa Woodson: Scramble Eggs, not murder. O easy. It's gonna be scramble eggs. 

Christina Trevaskis: I wanna circle back again to what you said about how your approach to agenting, uh, does come from your background of [00:20:00] being an author. So give me some things that you learned as an author that you applied, to being an agent.

Lissa Woodson: Communication. It is the communication. It's the not knowing that bothers an author. It's when did you send it? Who did you send it to? Mm-hmm. Uh, did I get any answers? When I get answers, good, bad or ugly, I, I screenshot and send it to them so they can see that we get, they don't have to contact me. I'm always outgoing information.

That's what I think. And also letting them have a say, okay, there was one person. And I had a little misgivings and I said, well, maybe it was a kink thing. And there were two or three things in there. I was like, eh, maybe I'm just being a prude and I'm older and this is, this is the way things are now.

But it was something that gave me pause. But I did not wanna take that [00:21:00] author's voice either. You understand what I'm saying? So I let it go out there. But she ended up what? Hearing it from the acquisitions editor that really loved the book. But those things that I considered were the things that, they also made it pa made it a pass.

So now the author and I had addressed it with the author that it was a, it was, kind of for me, but now she'll go back and apply it. And now she had put this, uh, little quip up on this post-it note. Believe Lisa in everything. That's some something to that, but there, but there's that. But the, but working with them now, I've had one person who didn't like my Agenting style.

Mm-hmm. If I needed, and I asked her if I needed to change one sentence of the work in order to get it through to an acquisitions editor. 'cause I know that this was what, no, you gotta discuss it with me first. This and the, okay. But here's the thing, if I need to do it on the fly. I may not have, I'll lose an opportunity if I'm on the Zoom and I'm talking to them and I need to [00:22:00] do this to get it in.

By the time I wait for it to come, I'll miss that opportunity that that agenting style may not work for everybody. I'm very aggressive. I'm very outgoing, but I'm also very with you, very intentional. And the thing about it is, and I don't give up. One person say, how long? How long does it take for you to get, there's some people who ended at 10, some people ended at 15.

The thing about it is what we do after 20, we pivot. Okay. So there's one client that I have, if she had gotten the deal, she was close to it. If she had gotten the deal at the time that TN Fisher and Colleen Hoover, she's in that class of people, if she had gotten the deal, then the book that she's working on would've.

It would fly, but now I think people are burned out on those kind of domestic thrillers and unreliable narrators and all of these things. So now it was a hard sell. So I said, what else she got? She's like, well, I have been piddling around with a romantic comedy. I'm like, [00:23:00] let's go. Let's clean it up. Let's put it out there.

She started getting bites for the romantic comedy, you have to be flexible. You have to know when to pivot. But you don't give up. I don't give up. 

Matt Cassem: Nice. 

Lissa Woodson: Until they do. 

Matt Cassem: Yeah. Thinking about the different styles that agents have, and I think that, you're exposed to a lot of different, uh, different authors in your day to day.

What's something about being a literary agent that most people don't expect or maybe misunderstand? 

Lissa Woodson: They think we're editors. And. We can give editorial direction, but if we're in the trenches editing your work, then we're not out there doing what you need us to do, which is selling the work.

That's one of the biggest misconceptions. The second misconception is that you don't need to have your work edited before you send it in. If I had to choose between something is mediocre and polished or dynamic and needs a lot of work, I'm going, what can get out the door? Fastest. 

Matt Cassem: Mm-hmm. Nice. Okay. [00:24:00] 

Lissa Woodson: Wow.

Yeah. 

Matt Cassem: Yeah. And just sort of a, a fun question. If you could represent any author, living or Dead, who would it be? 

Lissa Woodson: Octavia Butler. 

Christina Trevaskis: Oh 

Lissa Woodson: yeah, yeah. Octavia Butler. 

Matt Cassem: Yep. Yep. 

Lissa Woodson: Her mindset. Her mindset. She wrote her, I believe in Vision Boys. I have three I'm looking at right now. She wrote her success into existence.

She had that thing where she said, I'm, I am a New York Times bestselling author. I will be so I will win this prize, that prize. She wrote that out, that mindset prepared her for success. I also do that with my clients. Some clients, they think it's Google, no vision boards or even practice, practice writing.

New York Times bestselling author, Elena Kai, practice writing. That mindset has everything to do with it. There was what's this guy's name? Uh, Jim Carrey. 

Christina Trevaskis: Mm-hmm. 

Lissa Woodson: Yes. He wrote himself a check. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yes. He did 

Lissa Woodson: for, I think, $10 million or [00:25:00] whatever as he sat outside of, what is it, the, where they did the Grammy Awards, whatever that place is that they do it.

And he wrote himself a check when he was at his lowest. And what happened was eventually he got signed for a movie and the it, the biggest amount he was paid back then was the amount that he wrote on that check. My thing is that's a, that's a vision. Yeah. He put it out there. It's mindset. Mindset has everything to do with it.

If you think you're not going to, uh, get a deal, don't engage me. If you've already come with that mindset, then the universe is gonna live up to your or or down to your expectations. But if you come, this guy that I just signed, I had a Zoom with him a little earlier. He came in knowing this is gonna happen.

That kind of energy. I can't wait. The other guy that I signed had got him a deal. I'm also on his second deal and I just, all I read was the first page and I'm [00:26:00] like, yeah, I know from there. Most of the people that I have, I've signed from the first, second, or third page. Wow. I don't, and then we'll get into it and get it prepared, prepared or whatever, but I know, I'm an avid reader.

And I had to shift gears because some of the stuff that I'm representing isn't what I used to read. I'm, I'm a sci-fi girly, I'm paranormal, but most of what I'm representing is romantic suspense, romantic comedy, cozy mysteries, domestic thrillers, so now I had to kind of switch gears of what, what's good out there, what is, that's why I trust my editorial team.

They won't let me miss on some really good stuff. Just because I'm like, eh, it's a little bit of yawn. No, it may be a yawn right now, but we gonna work this out and get it so the pacing hits. 'cause the writing is solid. Once we get that, as well as they're not divas. 

Matt Cassem: Mm. 

Lissa Woodson: That's another thing. Like that woman I told you guys about, she was gonna be a diva.

She was [00:27:00] gonna be a diva. Because if you're gonna be that way with me, you're gonna tear your draws with the publishing house because when you become a diva with them, then I can't get anybody else in that house. Because you showed your ass. Mm-hmm. Hmm. And I have to think of my bottom line. It isn't just you.

Christina Trevaskis: Yep. 

Lissa Woodson: I've gotta get more people in that house. Yep. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah. So does it, does it make it more difficult for you when you have a problem client with the publishers? I'm actually thinking about one of my experiences where I actually witnessed an author I was working with a. Really tear into her publisher and I am now looking at it through your lens of, how did her agent handle that?

Because the agent does have to work with the publishing houses. Like you can't burn those bridges. You need those bridges to help your clients. So how do you [00:28:00] deal with a difficult client and not burn those bridges with. Publishing. 

Lissa Woodson: I try not to, no. Once I've been burned, I try to really, really weed out the divas.

I try to really weed out. And part of that is editorial as well. Yeah. Because when they're in the editing process, they are, they show a different side of themselves to the editors. 

Christina Trevaskis: Oh, that's Than they do to the agent. That's interesting. So you, you literally do get feedback from your editing team of like, oh, this woman is so, or man is so hard to work with and you may wanna consider mostly maybe not working with them.

Interesting. Mostly men. Mostly men. Mostly men. Wow. 

Lissa Woodson: And they'll say the demanding this, that, and yeah, I, I try to weed it off, head it off at the past, the past because I'm not just looking at them. I have a very small stable of clients. There are people who have a hundred, [00:29:00] 200, 300. 'cause we don't get paid until we sell books.

So I have to like you to put two years worth of energy into you to do this in the sense that I sign a deal for someone today. The book doesn't come out. For, we may get in advance. Okay. But if we don't, I don't see any money for like 24 months. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah. 

Lissa Woodson: So I have to, like you, I have to know that you're going to be the best representation of who my agency can bring.

Because they'll say, oh, what, who else she has? I want when they see that name, I want them to open up my submissions package right away. So I have right now on submit 14, I've pared it down. I had about 60 in the beginning. And it got to be that people were, they won't, won't make deadline. It's a wrap because that's another thing.

Dead missing deadlines can become a A thing. So I pared it down to the people who can get a deal and keep a deal. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah. What is the one thing [00:30:00] that you would want authors slash writers if they haven't published to know when searching out an agent? We do check your social media 

Lissa Woodson: platforms, clean it up before we look.

I, I had to, when I, I was mentored two and a half years in the Seymour Agency. And then it wasn't just me, it wasn't the macro group, it was the Seymour Agency that putting people through. So if an acquisitions editor is going to check me out, they're gonna go to my social media. And I was an erotic author.

So, and I sometimes put some very funny, very raunchy whatever stuff on there. What I had to do was I had to go clean up all my posts that did not fit with the brand of who I was represented. Yeah. And the same holds true. You don't have to have a boatload of stuff on there, but it needs to be representative of who you are in the sense of what books are you reading?

What, what did you last review what did talk about your characters, talk about family. We can get a sense [00:31:00] of who you are, but we do check that. And a lot of my, my passes are editorial and the other percentage is they're ghosts. They have no digital footprint. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah. Wow. 

Matt Cassem: Interesting. Well, as we sort of wrap this conversation up, I want to, 

Lissa Woodson: oh, wow.

That was quick. It was, 

Matt Cassem: I wanted to give you a chance to just, promote anything and. Whatever is top of mind that you're just very excited about that you think our listeners should know about? 

Lissa Woodson: Well, a lot of my clients are going with me, the cavalcade of authors that is happening. It's in its 21st year and we are doing a royal affair in Chicago where Wakanda meets Bridgeton, but we're also taking it on the road as well in the Nashville, Phoenix, Texas, Atlanta the DMV area.

So. Make sure you join the mailing list on macro. MMPG, macro, M as in Mary, P as in Paul G [00:32:00] or Naleighna Kai, which is my author name. Yeah. Naleighna Kai, N-A-L-E-I-G-H-N-A-K-A. I join the mailing list so you can find out about any events we have on the upcoming as well as. We have some anthologies coming out.

So if you're wanna dip your toe in the water of writing and you don't have a platform, anthologies are a great way to get in because you're connected then to authors who are further up the literary food chain. And you can establish your platform on Amazon without having a physical book yourself.

But you can collect followers that way. So when your book filing gets published and out, Amazon will send them an email saying, Hey, this person has a new book out. So anthologies are coming out. We have the events as well as if you wanna find me as an agent, macro, MPG hit me on Query Tracker. I only take submissions by Query Tracker because it helps to keep me accountable.

Nice. 

Christina Trevaskis: Yeah, we'll, uh, actually, uh, link all of those on this [00:33:00] episode's landing page. So, if you wanna hit her up any of those places or find out more information about the cavalcade of authors or any of the other events she's got going on. Uh, just go ahead and go to the landing page for this episode and we'll have the links there.

Matt Cassem: Yep. Check our website, check the show notes. All the links will be there. 

Lissa Woodson: Thank you. Yes. 

Matt Cassem: Well, that's a wrap for today's episode of Write Out Loud. A huge thank you to Lisa Woodson for sharing our wisdom and demystifying the world of literary. It's always inspiring to hear from professionals, helping storytellers get their work and get it out there and bring it to life.

So thank you also for tuning in to write out loud today. Every listen, every comment, every shared moment means the world to us, and we are truly grateful for this community of storytellers and dreamers. You have passion, creativity, and support inspires to keep going and keep these conversations going. So remember, your voice and your stories matter, so keep writing, keep dreaming.

And we can't wait to [00:34:00] connect again next time. So from Christina, Lisa, and me, thank you for being part of our creative family and keep reading out loud.