'The Last of Us' and the Art of Storytelling

Matt: Welcome back to Write Out Loud. I'm Matt, and as always, I'm joined by the absolutely brilliant, endlessly enthusiastic and crazy charismatic Christina.

Christina: I like that one. Crazy charismatic.

Matt: Yes. Well, today we're diving deep into one of the most unforgettable hours of television in recent memory, episode three of the last of us. A long, long time is the name of the episode, and this episode hit like an emotional freight train.

A beautiful, devastating love story that somehow found light in the middle of a post-apocalyptic nightmare. So we're gonna talk about the storytelling choices and the performances that absolutely wrecked us, how it differs, and why Bill and Frank's story lingers in your heart long after the credits roll.

So grab your tissues, maybe a glass of wine, and let's get into it.

Christina: Yes. So, I've been wanting to do this for an episode of our podcast since the show aired,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Because just myself as a viewer was watching it real time. So, it releases on Sunday nights and, It was the first time that I can recall that the credits started rolling and the song is playing,

Matt: Mm.

Christina: long,

Matt: Yep. Mm-hmm.

Christina: Throughout the episode, and I just, I had to sit there in silence and to the song and just. Absorb what had just happened. and then shortly after that, I believe it was the next day, I always, go online and what the buzz is. I listened to the official podcast for the show as well. this wasn't in there, but it came across desk was the. Writer of the episode is also one of the showrunners Craig Mazen. And Craig Mazen, to me, is simply amazing, a genius when it comes to screenwriting and show running. Because I'm a huge fan of Chernobyl,

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: I'm not. The type of person that usually watches that type of thing. But when it originally came out I did not have HBO at the time. There was no streaming service for it. But when I did get the streaming, I watched Noble and, it again, should have won all the Emmys, maybe did win all the Emmys. I, I'm not sure how many it did win, but Craig Ma, Craig Mazen The writer, producer, showrunner for that, as

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: as this, along with Neil Druckman who created the game.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Okay. This particular episode was written by Craig Mason, I found out the next day, or perhaps it was the day after, but it was shortly after the episode aired that Steven Spielberg wrote Craig Mazen personal letter. whether that was via email or a note I don't know. I don't think any of the articles actually, pinpointed that, but basically, I think it said something to the effect of. One of the best episodes of television, ever. And I would agree, and for so many reasons, and a lot of those reasons we're gonna get into here, but for the sake of discussion, for me without this episode, I mean, there's. Multiple reasons, but

Matt: Sure.

Christina: thing in particular, it's a turning point the relationship with the two main characters.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: And as far as writing goes, if you didn't do it in this way, you'd still have to do it in another way. And I think what they accomplished with this episode got them to the point that they needed to be. But also told such a beautiful story. And in fact after I started talking to you about it, I became obsessed with like, okay, so how do we get the script for this? And I don't know how it happened other than again, an article came across my desk and was this series that. Featured Emmy Emmy material. 'cause I don't, I think maybe it was, no, perhaps it was already nominated for the Emmy at that point. Maybe that's

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: in the article. Anyway, it, there were like five different scripts these shows that were up for an Emmy this just happened to be one of them.

And I'm like, Matt, got the script. We got the script. and then, things happen and, and finally, we're doing it. So,

Matt: Yeah, it's an incredible piece of writing and I think one of the things that's very interesting about it and decisions that were made within. The show, and especially putting this episode in, is that we are slowing down this plot to tell this much deeper, richer story that's focused on these two people, right?

Christina: Yep.

Matt: And like you said, this pivotal moment that really deeply impacts the rest of the story as well. So it's not just like it's its own kind of silo,

Christina: Yeah,

Matt: you definitely are making this conscious decision to say, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna stop for a second, basically, and just exist in this space.

But the payoff is gonna be so much bigger.

Christina: And it is completely bookended.

Matt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christina: They're on their way. They've, just lost Tess. She sacrificed herself. She was dying anyway, but she sacrificed herself they're traveling. Because they promised Tess to get Ellie to Bill and Frank's.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: gonna happen after they got to Bill and Frank's, part of me thinks that maybe Joel felt like, okay, I'm just gonna drop her off there and go. They're, she's gonna become their responsibility.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: and as the episode opens, they're clearly. On their way there, they're traveling. A couple, things happen on the way. And then the way they transition to Bill and Frank again, just, the creativity into that. So I think, maybe the best thing to do is just, dive into the episode kind of step by step.

Matt: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Let's jump in and talk through, 'cause I think there's some things that I want to point out too, around decisions that writers can make.

Christina: Yeah,

Matt: That will have this type of an impact as well. And how you can craft that story to really build up the emotional impact and also just, get you where you need to go in a much more fun and interesting way than just saying they found a car and off they go.

Christina: yeah, yeah. So this episode, I said, starts with Ellie and Joel On their way to Bill. And Frank's not sure where they're gonna go after that because the fireflies seem to be gone. and Tessa's gone and Joel is tasked with her. And of course, up until this point, Joel has been anti Ellie,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: rejecting her. How do we know she's immune?

Matt: Hmm. Super annoyed by her and her attitude.

Christina: you know, and that, that of course comes from the loss of his daughter.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I think Ellie. If not in personality, in age, him of

Matt: Yes.

Christina: and the fact that he couldn't save Sarah. So I

Matt: I.

Christina: think his mentality is dropping Ellie off I'm done with her because I don't wanna re be responsible for another person because of course, he's still kind of feeling a little bit of guilt from the loss of Tess as

Matt: Yep.

Christina: So, the one point I do wanna talk about as far as the script is concerned I was telling you when I first started reading the script, I, I don't know that I've ever read a script beyond, I've read plays, I've. Read things, you

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: college I was an English major, of course I read plays and, other things screenplays are, very similar to playwriting. But I was so struck and, again, I, have to harken back to Steven Spielberg, understand that this was probably, in the script, but it is so. Well written, and for me reading it, felt like reading a novel. Whereas other pieces of scripts that I've read, like, when you watch the Oscars and it has, best adapted screenplay, best original screenplay, they always have a little bit of the screenplay, up and you can see it, and they read from it.

And they don't seem poetic to me.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: They seem very. What's the word I want? I, I wanna use truncated, stilted,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: know, and I think, oh, okay, well the actors and everybody else afterwards adds that. And with Craig Mazen, I would say no. The first page is all very descriptive of that forest scene in the

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: And I can so see. A cinematographer or the director really honing in on the things that Craig explaining.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: he doesn't go too detailed. Giving it here's what you have to do. But simply, I'm gonna read just a little portion of it. it's, by the and it says, A hand bruised and cut lowers into the water. Joel Winces. As the water rolls over his bare hand, his breath puffs out in the frigid morning air. He's not wearing his coat shivering, but he keeps his hand in the water. even though it hurts, I mean it that to me, that reads like a novel. That would be something that you'd read in a novel. And again, one of the things I am not familiar with, but I'm excited to explore in the future, this, how every script is written.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: it very much from someone's point of view? To me that is Joel's point of view. This is him, feeling the wince, that sort of thing.

It doesn't come across as, direction for the actor, Joel nces.

Matt: Right.

Christina: then further down the road when they're walking. Now I will say this, there were a couple of things that were not in the show, that were in the script. So they may have been filmed, they might have been cut. And one of the things is, is when and Ellie are talking about his scar,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: did he get that scar?

And he says, someone shot at me and they missed, and she's like, oh, did you shoot back? And he's like, yep, and I missed too. And she says, because you suck at shooting. Or like in general, in general. And then he asks, where did you get your scar? And I don't remember that from the

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: breaking.

And, and she says, breaking and entering at a seven 11. But this is the part I wanted to read because it is so to me. Gives exactly what Joel is thinking. He's like, what the fuck? But before he could ask her to elaborate, she's already moved on to what she wants to talk about, which is guns like the revolver, holstered in his belt. Ellie, it's just the two of us. Maybe I should have Joel. Nope. least drugs, whatever. I don't care. Then in parentheses

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: yes I do.

Matt: Yep. Yeah.

Christina: me that's I'm sure it's seen as direction

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: to the actors but for me reading it, it was like I was, it was like I was reading a novel.

So

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: that's one of the things that impressed me so much about actual mechanics of this screen play.

Matt: Yeah, I, I do think that this is how most of them are, because I think it does, you do have to paint enough of a picture so that the actor can kinda get into that feel of the character, right? Like, this is their mindset, this is what they're thinking. Without, to your point telling them specifically, I want you to raise your left eyebrow.

I want you to, 

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: it's more about the general feeling of the scene and kind of painting the pictures to let the actor get. That feel for it and run with it. But it is interesting. I think they've done, a nice job of, in the writing, laying out again, just the, the gap between the two is narrowing, but

Christina: yeah,

Matt: so slowly, ever so slowly.

Christina: so

Matt: I.

Christina: next thing I wanna talk about is they're walking, Joel's like, okay, we're going to take this, we're gonna cut across through the field. And, and it's like, isn't it shorter if we walk this way? And he is like. There's stuff up there you don't wanna see. And then of course, that

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Ellie, like she's gonna go see it.

And love the transition from that moment of seeing the bones, but the clothes that were tattered and just, of cloth. But then, the camera comes back and now you're seeing. The mother and child,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: wearing those clothes and we've gone back to the beginning. one of the things that I think is important with this episode, as I said, for me, it's a very pivotal episode. But here's the other thing, it, it takes you back to the beginning or where we would've left off after that first night. So we see Joel, Tommy, and Sarah the first night, and what happens to them?

Matt: Yep.

Christina: see anymore. now we see what happened after, the military collects you or doesn't collect you. those, that there weren't enough space for them, were taken to this field and, killed because of course you don't want anybody. Giving them an opportunity to become another cords, you wanna get rid of all the cords and, and start over. People were sacrificial. But then it shows this couple of course that has been talked about in the previous episode and. They're absolutely good friends of Joel and Tess's, we see them, from beginning to end. So again, it was this beautiful way of showing what happened rather than just saying, Hey, to catch the audience up.

This is the type of thing that happened, then.

Matt: Right.

Christina: a really great opportunity, again, to book end.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: on both ends, but have this beautiful love story, tragic but beautiful love story in the middle.

Matt: Yeah. Well, I think, I think what it does too is it gives a nice contrast because the show itself feels so dark and so hopeless as they're going through it. Like they're just scratching by to survive,

Christina: Yes.

Matt: a bleak outlook to it, right? Like if you get bit, well, you're. You're screwed and except for Ellie, and there's nothing else that you can do about it.

So you've gotta just, I mean, they've, they made the point over and over again. There's no vaccines, there's no,

Christina: There's

Matt: no cure. There's nothing that you can do for it. Like, we're just dead. And then you, you take that and go, okay, let's refresh the audience a little bit. Let's again, bring them to hope and to love and let's, let's draw this sort of transitional phase in and let the audience just sort of take a breath.

And just sort of enjoy, because we're gonna put them right back in it real quick.

Christina: Yep.

Matt: So let's just give them this, this little respite. And I think it deepens the impact of it. But it's really, I think it's really well done and well executed.

Christina: Yeah. And I think the other thing that it shows is the differences in how people

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: outbreak life thereafter. So Bill, is this. Prepper, and I'm putting in air quotes, survivalist because during the middle of the episode, he corrects Joel and says, I'm not a prepper, I'm a survivalist.

But he seemed to know exactly how he wanted this whole thing to go,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: beginning. He was down in that underground and the wall of guns, as

Matt: Yes.

Christina: calls it, with the multiple cameras being able to

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: everywhere. I. Then as soon as everybody leaves, he comes out in his gas mask.

So okay, everything's okay. But then he stra head straight to the Home Depot and then right from the Home Depot, he goes to the electric company

Matt: Yep.

Christina: The gas company or whatever it was, and turns everything back on, hooks it back up, builds this fence around, his place. I also thought it was very interesting too, that as time continues, bill would. things to it,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: you know? Especially after Joel came and said, Hey, that fence isn't gonna last much longer. You're gonna need some stuff I have access to. But beyond that, I actually laughed out loud because the next scene is you see the fence and there's the cars piled

Matt: Yes.

Christina: on top of the fence, know?

To your note that this beautiful. Respite from the darkness of the story but also some comic relief,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: of course the love story between Bill and Frank to me was totally unexpected.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: played the games, I had never heard of the last of us. and in fact, I found the last of us. I was a fan of Craig Mazen, and people were talking about this. People were excited about it, and I knew it was a, a game but had no knowledge of it. So I just wanted to watch it for Craig

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Amazing writing. So I was surprised. I was surprised that they did this.

And, weaving in the song, was a theme throughout. And as I, as I said before, I don't know if it was before, in this episode that I think it was the first time that I sat through the credits like that

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: had to just absorb what I had just watched. And, as well as, I wanted to listen to the full song.

I didn't just wanna,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: know, listen to it that way.

Matt: Well, and speaking of, of the game, just to take a quick time out, right? Like it is very different from the game because Bill is much, much, much darker and. The actual game Frank is actually gone before anybody ever meets Bill. Like he's not act, he's long gone in the game. So this is interesting because they were able to build this whole new cannon for the, the show.

But again, it, it humanized the characters and helped bring a little bit more depth to the story. So it was a really, really smart move.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah. One of the memorable moments from the episode of course, are the strawberries.

Matt: Yes.

Christina: We'll never look at strawberries the same again. And the thing is and this is totally the actor because I was actually looking for that in the script.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: But when he take, bill takes that first bite and he just giggles like he

Matt: Yes.

Christina: and, falls in that was not in the script.

So I gotta imagine that was Nick Offerman. Now Nick Offerman, I do know, won the Eey for

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: with the strawberry because you, you just felt the delight of not having tasted a strawberry.

And at that point it had to have been around 10 years into the, into the outbreak. Not having that, and, and again, they found these little moments. This is how Tess and Frank met.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: know, they had lunch together and you know, Joel said, we can trade for things.

There are things we can get you that you need. And then

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Frank says, he traded one of Bill's guns for the strawberry

Matt: Yeah.

And he is like, which one?

Christina: Yeah, exactly.

Matt: Which one? He is like, just a little one. It doesn't matter.

Christina: just

Matt: It doesn't matter. It's okay. You have plenty of guns.

Christina: Yes. Yes.

Matt: I, I will say too, I think back to the, just that respite that you get, you know what, what's also really, really, really smart about this is. It breathes purpose again, back into the show.

And by that I mean, not the show itself, but like the, the drive to want the world to be better again. Want the world to heal. It gives it something to like, oh yeah, that's right. We, there is something possible out here that we could do if we tried hard enough.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's also an episode, so when I said that at bookends, so, the tragedy of the episode is actually caught up in time now. I don't know how many hours, 600 hours are, but

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: hours is the amount of time it took for the music to start or him to reset music.

So it, time in between Ellie and Joel arrived as to when dear bill and Frank.

Matt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christina: which, God, it's, again, hard to say. We started to love them over this episode. I had no idea,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: that they were gonna die. I will say immediately when Frank talked about whatever it was that he had.

Matt: Yes.

Christina: They didn't name it,

Matt: Yep.

Christina: But said, there was no cure when the

Matt: before with the shit.

Christina: yeah, exactly. And my brain went straight to a LS.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Now in the script it did say, disease like a LS or

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: They don't actually name what it is specifically.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: But I had an aunt who died from a LS

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: and I can tell you that if, if that's the way it, like if you got a LS during this, end of the world

Matt: Mm.

Christina: piece of, know, hereafter, I would've been like, Frank,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: know, you're not gonna wanna live out. Without the medicines and caretakers and, all of that. And I can absolutely understand Bill,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: like as soon as he agreed to it, I thought he agreed to it because he's going out with them,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: you know? So it was, I don't wanna say it was predictable. 

Matt: It took him a bit though. Like he was very much like, he's like, I don't want, no, he kind of fought with it initially.

Christina: Yep.

Matt: I think he got there pretty quickly. I do want to, I do wanna say though, I think it's interesting that they just kind of happened to have this medicine somewhere that they found and I was like,

Christina: I do

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: got that from Joel and,

Matt: Possibly. Yeah.

Christina: 'cause I think because Joel specifically mentions medicine. We have access to medicines that you don't.

Matt: That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah.

Christina: Yeah. So that's the other thing too that I wanna definitely mention is they were so detailed.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Like they, I don't know if I see any potholes. Like I said, I actually kind of understand why they didn't name the disease.

Matt: Oh, a hundred percent.

Christina: You know, and let people go with

Matt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christina: And

Matt: It's the same conversation that we've had too before around like a lot of authors that don't physically describe their characters because they want people to kinda have their own. Image in their heads maybe, or they just, they're like, it doesn't really matter, right? It doesn't really drive the story forward.

If I tell you she's got green eyes and red streaks in her hair, like same thing here. I think it was just you, you understood very clearly that his disease was debilitating and very much like, you understood you're like, okay,

Christina: And

Matt: I get the sense that it's probably Parkinson's like that or a LS or something.

So I think that was good.

Christina: because you could see the progression in the paintings.

Matt: Yes.

Christina: And also in his physical ability, from wheelchair to, being able to ,

Matt: The painting.

Christina: that was just couldn't hold his hand steady.

Matt: Yeah. But I think, I think that's good for, again, letting the audience kind of just roll with it. Right? Like you, again, you don't necessarily have to have to. Specifically say all of those details as a writer, you can leave some of that stuff open to some interpretation,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: as long as it's clear enough that the audience understands

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: they're dealing with.

Christina: under, so the purpose. So, kind of circling back to what we started with is that the purpose of this episode

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: a turning

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Joel and Ellie. And they also got to showcase, what happened at the beginning of, the outbreak, through the time that Joel and Ellie show up. And I think to me. Without this episode, they'd have to figure out another way, because I really do believe that Joel's intention was to leave Ellie with Bill and Frank, and I think that's why maybe they made the decision. I. To def, deviate from the game. In that bill in the game, if I'm understanding it correctly, he's, still alive, or at least at some point he's still alive and Ellie, meets him and knows him, but here they're, they're killing him off.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: I think it's, it's really great the way that they work it with that letter. And the letter, actually again, I think it's a little bit of a funny point because it's, it's technically addressed to Joel, but it says to whomever,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Joel, I. Ellie goes, well, I qualify as whomever. I'm not

Matt: Yes.

Christina: it to Joel.

And so, yeah, and then part of the letter, and then I can't remember exactly what Bill had written, but then he wrote, he, he, he, he

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Ellie again, there was, some comic relief there.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: The most important part, and the whole purpose of the letter was because. Bill imparts on Joel, that those two are so much alike and they both had purpose, and their purpose was to keep their loved ones alive,

Matt: Yep.

Christina: which of course backfires because. One of his loved ones, or presumably, was Tess and

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: saved her and they don't know about Sarah. He didn't save Sarah. There might be more people in between that he did not save. So I think in that moment, he makes a split second decision of, okay, I'm gonna get Ellie where she needs to go. I'm gonna go find my brother and maybe he knows where these fireflies this hospital is and I'm gonna get her there. don't think, think you would've had a harder time as a writer figuring out how to get to that pivotal point with them. Does he like her? No. 'cause he still calls her cargo in the truck at one point.

And there are other things that you still see that I. But I think this is the first corner turned toward liking her,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: towards,

Matt: least thinking he could protect her.

Christina: thinking that he could protect her. Like, maybe this is somebody that won't die under my care.

Matt: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christina: I don't think it was that. I, I don't think he was that drastic with it.

And again. think if that letter hadn't been there, he would've been like, okay, we're, we're done here. I don't know what else to do. I'm gonna go out to Wyoming. Wyoming, you know, you're welcome to come with, but

Matt: Yep.

Christina: not gonna take care of you.

Matt: Other way I stay here.

Christina: Yeah. So, and then again, them leaving in the truck, it's funny with the whole seatbelt thing and how

Matt: Yes.

Christina: you know,

Matt: She doesn't know.

Christina: never been in a car before, have you? Nope. It's

Matt: Nope.

Christina: And then getting on the seatbelt and she doesn't know what a seatbelt

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: so again, the comic relief. And then, she finds Frank's mix tape for Bill and

Matt: Yes.

Christina: the Linda Ronstadt song on there. So they, they wove it in there. So naturally,

Matt: Yep.

Christina: feel And I think that is. Like the one thing that if you're not gonna take anything else away from this episode, this is the one thing I want you to take away as a writer, that is a great way to do everything.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Like to, to do it naturally. It, it shouldn't feel forced. None of this episode felt forced. It felt natural. It felt like the progression, it felt this was a real, know, love story between Bill and Frank. This was, a real change of dynamic between Ellie and Joel. Yeah, I think without this episode it wouldn't have, and I think maybe that's what Steven Spielberg also felt in it. There again, there's so many. Things about this episode. When we were discussing earlier about how we were going to discuss this, we always do this pre, recording episode, how we're gonna approach it, what are some, key points we wanna make sure. And Matt was like, so what are we gonna talk about?

And I said, oh my God, there's so many things. There's so many different ways you can come back, come at this episode.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Because it wasn't just, okay, here's the one thing that we've gotta get done. It was, we have to get this done, this, this, this, and they must have had a list.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: then Craig wrote it in such a way that, and, and again, I should give some credit to Neil Druckman who created the game because he created the characters,

Matt: Mm.

Christina: character of Frank was. Named we, the gamers may have known some things about him. But he had, he built the structure and, Craig Mason filled in all the, the walls and,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Furnished the house,

Matt: Yeah,

Christina: speak.

Matt: yeah. I, and I do, again, I think going back to the one thing that I would say I would like you to take away, if you're. Thinking about how to craft your own story is think about these transitional elements. Think about the times where you have to get from A to B and how do you make it more interesting?

How do you breathe more humanity into it and breathe more depth and feeling? Because anytime you do that, the story's just gonna be that much better for it. So it is worth the investment of time to spend thinking about how you inter,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: weave in those little threads that, that kind of move things along.

So.

Christina: and the details, that's what the takeaway from this episode is. The threads and the details.

Matt: Absolutely. Well that is an amazing episode. I'm glad that we got to talk about it, right? 'cause we've been, we've been thinking about having this episode for a very long time.

Christina: Well,

Matt: We finally

Christina: know,

Matt: said, let's do.

Christina: with the airing of. Current season two, which Matt is not caught up on, so I can't even discuss it

Matt: Mm-hmm. Nope. Not yet.

Christina: Yes,

Matt: yet.

Christina: it.

Matt: All right. Well, that's gonna wrap up the conversation on the last of us episode three. A long, long time. Huge. Thank you for listening. We know how special this episode is to so many people, and it is an honor to break that down with all of you. So if today's talk resonated with you, if you laughed, you cried, you found yourself humming long, long time afterwards, we would love for you to leave us a review.

Subscribe and share the podcast with your fellow fans. Until next time, stay safe. Hold on to hope. And remember, sometimes the best stories aren't about surviving. They're about living. Until then, write out loud.

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